C.B.S. Roscommon Senior Cycle Subject Choice - Seamus O Doherty School Guidance Counsellor - CBS Roscommon
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C.B.S. Roscommon
Senior Cycle
Subject Choice
Seamus O Doherty
School Guidance Counsellor
Agenda for this Evening • How you can research this with your son & engage in meaningful discussion around subject choice • Why subject choice is important • The basics of senior cycle, subjects and points • Entry Requirements: General & Specific • A brief look at the requirements within each optional subject • Points to consider when choosing subjects • Questions
Decision Time • Students must ultimately make 3 decisions: • (1) The total number of subjects • (2) The actual subjects • (3) The levels at which each subject is taken
Leaving Certificate: The Basics
Students study 7 Subjects
for the Leaving Certificate
3 Core/Compulsory
(English, Irish, Maths)
+
4 Optional
Introduction • Subject choice is very important as it has far reaching implications for the future. • 600+ points i.e. does not guarantee entry to 3rd Level (University/College)
The New Points Scale 2017 onwards
Points System (New for 2017 onwards)
Pre-2017 Band New Bands 2017 % Mark Higher Points Ordinary Points
onwards
A1 H1/O1 90-100 100 56
A2/B1 H2/O2 80-89 88 46
B2/B3 H3/03 70-79 77 37
C1/C2 H4/04 60-69 66 28
C3/D1 H5/05 50-59 56 20
D2/D3 H6/06 40-49 46 12
E H7/07 30-39 37 0
F H8/08 0Honours Maths & Bonus Points
Honours Maths & Bonus
Points
• All students achieving a H6 or higher will have 25
points added to their total score for honours Maths.
• Therefore: H6= 46 points + Bonus Points = 71 Points
• The Maths grade itself does not change.
• There are no bonus points for a H7 in
Honours Maths.
• If Maths is not included in the top six subjects
counted, the bonus points are not included
• There are no bonus points for Ordinary level Maths.The Reason Subject
Choice is so
important: 3rd Level
Entry RequirementsJumping the “hurdles” to Third Level Education 1) Minimum Entry Requirements 2) Specific Course Requirements 3) Then and only then are your Points considered. Note: In this exact order!
1)Minimum Entry Requirements What you have to have before you can be considered at all • A.k.a: Matriculation or General requirements
General Entry Requirements
2016 OLD 2017 NEW Typical general
GRADING GRADING entry requirement:
BANDS BANDS
5 OD3 5 06/H7 Institutes of
Technology
2HC3 & 4OD3 2H5 & 4 National University
O6/H7 of Ireland, Galway,
NUI Maynooth, UCD,
UCC etc.
3HC3 & 3OD3 3H5 & Trinity College
3O6/H7 DublinPoints System (New for 2017 onwards)
Pre-2017 Band New Bands 2017 % Mark Higher Points Ordinary Points
onwards
A1 H1/O1 90-100 100 56
A2/B1 H2/O2 80-89 88 46
B2/B3 H3/03 70-79 77 37
C1/C2 H4/04 60-69 66 28
C3/D1 H5/05 50-59 56 20
D2/D3 H6/06 40-49 46 12
E H7/07 30-39 37 0
F H8/08 02) Specific Course Requirements • These are particular subjects or combination of subjects that you must have to get a place in a specific course.
Example of Specific Course Requirements • Engineering in UCD – - Passes in English and Irish - Science subject at H5 - H5 in Higher Maths - and 2 other subjects - 6 subjects in total
Specific Entry Requirements
Course Title College Specific entry
requirement:
Business Athlone n/a
Institute of
Technology
Engineering NUI Galway Laboratory Science
&
H4 in Maths
Pharmacy Trinity College O4/H6 Maths
Dublin H5 Chemistry
H4 in Laboratory Science
Garda Vetting3) Points Those who meet the minimum entry and specific course requirements are allocated places on the basis of points gained from their SIX best subjects.
Where to check Requirements?
Using Qualifax www.qualifax.ie • Click students • Click useful tools • Click Minimum Subject Requirement • Click Leaving Certificate Subjects • Then Choose the relevant subject to check courses it is definitely, may be or is definitely not required for.
Subject Requirement
Checker
• Remember you can use qualifax if you
are unsure. Take Biology for example
• Qualifax will tell you any courses
where:
o You MUST have Biology
o You MIGHT need a Biology (in this
case they generally mean ANY
science subj)
o You definitely DONT need BiologyI.T. Resources
Where to research the finer detail in
relation to each subject:
www.careersportal.ie
• Click Courses
• Click guide to subject choice
• Option to click for more detailed
informationImportance of knowing
the content
• Exam structure
• Grade Distribution- How many H1s?
• Why study this?
• Brief overview of subject
• Course overview
• Course ContentConstruction Exam
Structure: 100%=600Marks
• Construction Studies is assessed at two levels, Ordinary level and Higher level
• There is a written examination, a practical test, and an assessment of student
project work.
• The examination at both Higher and Ordinary level has three separate
components:
• Section A Three hour written paper worth 300 marks. The exam consists of
10 questions out of which five have to be attempted. Question 1 is a
compulsory drawing question of a building detail.
• Section B 4-hour practical woodwork exam where the student makes a small
item out of timber under exam conditions. The exam normally takes place in
May. This accounts for 150 marks.
• Section C Building Project where the student makes a building detail, a scale
model of a building or a craft piece. The student also produces a portfolio to
accompany the project that they make. Ideally this project must be
completed by Christmas. This accounts for 150 marks.•Oral examination: One to one
French conversation with an examiner
appointed by the State examination
Commission.
•The examination is a 12 minute
conversation on different topics. You
Higher Level Ordinary Level can also bring in a document to
discuss.
Oral : 25 % Oral : 20 % •The conversation is recorded so that
Aural : 20 % Aural : 25 % if you appeal your result, the oral can
also be checked.
Written Written
•Aural examination: The listening
comprehensions: comprehensions: 40
% exam lasts for 40 minutes and takes
25 %
place after the written paper. It has
Written Written 5 sections. Once the examination
expression: 20 % expression: 15 % starts, it cannot be interrupted.
•Written examination: The written
examination has two parts. Section 1
is written comprehensions (2 for
Higher level and 4 for Ordinary level)
and Section II is the written expression
(3 exercises at Higher Level and 2 at
Ordinary Level).The Optional Subjects and Entry Requirements
Optional Subject Groupings
• Languages Group
• Science Group
• Business Group
• Humanities Group
• Artistic Group
• Practical GroupLanguages Group French, Spanish
Language Pointers
A Modern Language is required for
entry to all colleges of the
National University of Ireland
(NUI)*
*UCD, UCC, NUI Galway and Maynooth, Milltown Institute, Shannon, St.
Angela’s Sligo, RCSI and NCAD .
However..Exceptions to Modern Language Requirement Modern Language not required for courses in: • Agriculture, Science and Engineering at UCD • Science and Engineering in NUI Maynooth • Science in NUIG and UCC • Nursing at any of the colleges. • NCAD will accept Art instead of a language, etc.
Modern Language
Requirement
• Dublin City University (DCU) &
University of Limerick (UL) – not
required as part of general entry
requirement
• Institutes of Technology (I.T’s) –
same as DCU/UModern Language
Requirements:
• Definitely required for 172 Course:
ranging from Arts, Commerce, Law,
Medicine, Teaching at Universities
• Definitely not required for 1364
Courses
• May be required for 11 CoursesScience Group
Physics, Chemistry, Biology,
Agricultural ScienceScience Pointers
If applying for anything in the
Engineering, Medical, Paramedical
(Radiography, Physiotherapy, Human
Nutrition/Dietician, Pharmacy,
Medical Laboratory Science, etc.)
or Science areas at Universities you
need to pass at least one
Laboratory Science subject.Science Pointers Continued • You need a Science subject for P.E. Teaching and Physiotherapy (Biology advisable). • Some courses require TWO Science subjects (e.g. Medicine, Pharmacy and Dentistry in UCC require a HC in Chemistry and a HC in Physics or Biology.
Science Not Required • Institutes of Technology do not require a science subject for (Higher Certificate or Ordinary Degree) courses in Engineering, Science or Electronics, but needless to say it would be very useful.
Course Definitely Requiring Specific Science Subjects: • Biology: • Genetics @ UCC • Human Health & Disease @TCD • Physics: • Theoretical Physics @ TCD • Agricultural Science: None
Courses Definitely
Requiring Chemistry
• Dentistry @ UCC
• Medicine @ UCC
• Pharmacy @ UCC & RCSI
• Veterinary Medicine UCD
• Medical & Health Science @ UCC
• Human Nutrition & Dietetics @ TUDBusiness Group
Accountancy, Business,
EconomicsBusiness Pointers
None required for most
Business, Marketing or
Commerce courses, but
naturally, they would help if
you wanted to do such a
course.
H4 in Accounting now required for
B.Comm Accounting @ NUI GalwayArtistic Group Art, Music
Artistic Pointers
Not essential for Art or Music
courses, but recommended as a
portfolio/ audition/ music test
is likely to be a requirement for
these.Humanities Group History, Geography
Humanities Pointers • Geography, not strictly required in any course. • History, another interests/points subject: not strictly required for any courses in the country. • Students usually find these subjects easier to score higher points than Maths/Irish • Remember: Once you have jumped hurdles 1 & 2 its all Points, Points, Points!
The Practical's
Construction,
Design and Communications GraphicsPractical Subject Pointers Neither Design and Communications Graphics nor Construction are strictly required for admission to any 3rd Level Course. Not required to become involved in the architecture, construction profession but useful of course • Conversation to be had re: DCG if not done for Junior Cert unless doing woodwork • Again these are great subjects for accumulating high points (Projects 40-50% in advance of exam!)
Things to Consider: Food for thought
Things to consider
• What optional subjects is your son interested in?
• Genuine interest is important in terms of motivation.
• What subjects is your son good at?
• Chatting to teachers may help gauge students ability within subject
areas but remember attitude is as important as ability.
• Are there subjects that compliment each other?
• What career areas are of interest to the student?
• Do students have a definite career direction? If so, choose a combination
of appropriate subjects to enhance career prospects but beware of the
cost of not doing a subject.
• REMEMBER:The number of courses and jobs, which require specific
subjects, are quite small but these need to be researched.Helping Students with their
research: Guidance Class
• Students in TY and 3rd Year have a
weekly guidance class
• The sole focus of this class is on
raising awareness as to the necessity
to be considering subject choice whilst
bearing Entry Requirements in mindThe TY Guidance Portfolio: Subject Choice Toolkit • Career Investigation: 2 Page document researching two pathways into a career of choice. Looking at subjects strictly required, those that are useful, points trends, subjects taught on the courses etc. • Mock CAO Application: Mimicking the Leaving Certs dilemmat of choosing the 20 courses that they are eligible to apply to. • Mock Subject Choice form: Preparing for the actual issue of choosing the subjects now that the implications of these decisions is fully understood • The Year is 2022: Rounding up the subject choice conversation with a semi-fictional creative writing piece about the future for each student
CAT4 Assessment • Each student who took part in the assessment will have a report to help with their subject choice Ideally this would be reviewed in a one to one meeting but due to circumstances reports will be given to students on Microsoft Teams • There is an accompanying Parent report • Please read through as best you can and get in touch if you have questions
Summary
• 7 Subjects
– 3 Compulsory: English Irish
Maths
– 4 Options; Language + Science+ 2
others
• Specific Subject Requirements are
usually for a Modern Language or a
Science subject, so these will keep
most your options open.My aim when working on
Subject Choice
• My/School aim here is that students are not
choosing or imposing unknown restrictions on
future entry to colleges, training or professional
positions
• Encouraging students to research, contemplate
and explore the options so as to choose a
meaningful, manageable package of subjects.
• By this I mean a set of subjects, which will give
students a sense of direction, will provide self-
motivation and is achievable.Make Choices Based on … • Interests • Career Aspirations • Third Level Entry Requirements • High Grades • Balanced Approach
Thank you for taking the time to read through this presentation. Usually we have an opportunity to ask questions at this stage – so please if you have any, I am contactable through Microsoft Teams and my email address is seamusodoherty@cbsroscommon.ie
Please see the following for further assistance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHurGx1tTug : This is a brief 90 second video that explains everything a parent and student needs to know about subject choice. I rate this as excellent and Brian Comerford - creator of www.classroomguidance.ie has kindly made his website free to all for a limited time as a good will gesture given the current climate. www.careersportal.ie This https://careersportal.ie/school/subject_explorer.php is a link to the specific page on careers portal.ie that deals with the subjects and normally I would do a demo in presentation for parents - students are beyond familiar with this I hope! www.Qualifax.ie This https://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=26&Mainsec= courses&Subsec=min_courses_select&view=wrapper&xpt=0.61113000%2014291903 12&xpt=0.87098800%201429191164 is a link to the qualify.ie page where it allows you to input a specific subject and then tell you what courses require this - again an incredibly useful tool for students/parents.
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